Disabled Florida veteran loses $100K in phony home sale
WPTV 5 News
Erik Waxler
November 9, 2017
The Pasco Sheriff’s Office is after the home’s former owner, Joseph Burke. There was talk he may have gone to the Cayman Islands.
Lamm, who suffers from serious back pain and PTSD, doesn’t expect to ever see that money again, but he does want justice.
HUDSON, Fla. - It was the house Lenny Lamm thought he was buying. The perfect place for his wife and four sons.
“My kids were so excited when things were going to happen. They loved the house. They loved the property. It was everything we wanted. And it’s just gone.”
In crisis after Iraq tour, Kansas City veteran given second chance at fatherhood
KSHB News Steven Dial November 2, 2017
He felt he was out of options, so Brown put a call into the VA for help. He received a PTSD diagnosis after his military service, and workers moved to get him into a rehabilitation program through KVC Health Services.
KANSAS CITY, Kan. -- After returning from serving in Iraq, James Brown’s life went in a downward spiral. He got addicted to pain pills, went to jail and lost custody of his children.
“It’s not how you start, but how you finish that matters.” The old saying rings true for Brown.
He served our country, then came home to a broken family. His troubles went out of control when his wife left him. Brown was arrested multiple times after his return from Iraq in 2015, once on a weapons charge.
“I tried to commit suicide, then I got addicted to pain pills, which also got me in trouble with the law,” said Brown. “I was on my way to try and commit homicide -- kill me and my kids.”
His two young children, Jayden and Adrianna, went to live with Cathy and Stu MacFarlane as part of the foster home program. While the couple has children of their own, they’ve also spent the past four years opening their home to children in need. read more here
7 On Your Side: VA wrongfully claims veteran owes thousands
WJLA News Nathan Baca November 1, 2017
“When I was diagnosed with PTSD, it took me almost 10 years to submit myself to the VA and say look, can you help me?’ Not until my wife said, ‘if you don’t ask for help, I’m going to take the children and I’m out,’” recalled Sabino. “More than once or twice… the thought process of killing myself – it’s always there.”
Photo of Petty Officer Zaldy Sabino in Bosnia. Thursday, Nov. 1, 2017. (Nathan Baca, ABC7)
FORT WASHINGTON, Md. (ABC7) — Seven On Your Side intervened in the case of one Maryland Navy veteran, leading the Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) to reverse claims that veterans owed the government more than $22,000. The problem identified by ABC7 News affects an unknown number of veterans nationwide, according to veterans support organizations. The House Veterans Affairs Committee recently held a hearing on the subject of VA errors in benefits adjustments. read more here
Time to Kill the BS to Save Veterans! Combat PTSD Wounded Times Kathie Costos October 28, 2017 Sick and tired of political BS on both sides that leaves veterans trapped and confused. The National Media with 24-7 "news" has turned away from what the American public cares about and veterans need to know. When we need Walter Cronkite we get politics-idiocy and fake facts.
PTSD
It is not a "mental illness." It hits you! The term actually means "wound" so get the crap out of your head that you were weak or any other BS you've been told over the years.
You are not a victim but you are a survivor!
Suicides For all the BS talk about raising awareness and politicians funding "efforts" to the tune of billions a year, they have actually increased. (Check the facts for yourself.) **Military Suicides (not counted within the headlines of veterans committing suicide) CY 2008 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2009 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2010 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2011 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2012 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2013 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2014 DoDSER Annual Report CY 2015 DoDSER Annual Report DoD Quarterly Suicide Report CY2016 Q4 DoD Quarterly Suicide Report CY2017 Q2 **VA Veteran Suicides 2012 (21 states) 2014 (Not all states have military service on death certificates, so many not included) **Veteran Charities Not all charities take care of all generations. Make sure you know who you are donating to and what they are doing with your money. Results matter more than what they claim. **Peer Support Peer support works best but only when the person giving support knows more than the one needing it. **Healing You can heal and live a better life but it requires a lot of work on your mind-body and spirit. The BS within "the rest of your life" is that you are stuck suffering the way you are. While there is no cure for PTSD, there is healing and living better quality of life. **Problems with the VA? Refer to Congress and check the facts going back to 1946, when they got the job of taking care of veterans. **Privatization of VA BS! You prepaid for your care when you started to serve. Don't let them send you into the same mess the rest of us deal with. If you have to wait for appointments, so do the rest of us in civilian healthcare. Have to see one doctor after another? So do we, and we have to wait for those appointments and tests too. When you hear someone in Congress say the VA is a mess and they are doing you a favor by sending you to private doctors, ask them why they haven't fixed the VA to make sure the care you were promised was delivered! Remember, what you need and they promised you, should have been taken care of ahead of time. You did your job. Make them to theirs!
"Military records show that Clinton Ray Brown, born Feb. 27, 1945, in Sheldon, Mo., was a sergeant in the Army’s 6th Infantry during the Vietnam War. He was awarded a Purple Heart and several other medals for his year in-country from 1968-69."
$35 million lawsuit: VA mental health misdiagnosis cost KC airline pilot his job
Kansas City Star
Tony Rizzo
September 19, 2017
A Kansas City man has filed suit alleging that he lost his job as an airline pilot after Veterans Affairs doctors misdiagnosed him with bipolar disorder.
William Royster is seeking $35 million in the suit filed in U.S. District Court in Kansas City.
It is a refiling of a previous suit that Royster voluntarily dismissed last September.
Royster is a former U.S. Navy pilot who was injured in 1996 when his plane was shot down by a Japanese navy ship during a training exercise.
But in 2013, after a new psychiatrist took over his case and undertook a thorough review and conducted additional testing, the doctor determined that Royster should never have been diagnosed with the disorder. read more here
Somerset Doctor Defrauded Veterans Affairs 350 Times: U.S. Attorney
The Somerset doctor fraudulently received $238,230 from Veterans Affairs for procedures he never performed, according to a U.S. Attorney. Patch.com By Alexis Tarrazi (Patch Staff) August 17, 2017
SOMERSET, NJ — A cardiologist from Somerset admitted Thursday to defrauding the Veterans Affairs program by billing for services he had not actually performed, Acting U.S. Attorney William E. Fitzpatrick announced.
Apostolos Voudouris, 44, pleaded guilty before U.S. District Judge William H. Walls in Newark federal court to information charging him with health care fraud. Voudouris must also pay $476,460 to resolve the government’s claims under the False Claims Act as part of a civil settlement agreement.
Voudouris, a physician specializing in cardiology and electrophysiology, began providing services to eligible veterans at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in East Orange, pursuant to his contract with the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in 2006.
On more than 350 occasions between 2011 and 2015, Voudouris claimed he performed procedures he had not actually performed. By doing so, Voudouris fraudulently received $238,230 from the VA, he admitted.
OMG! I need to stay out of social media. Yet again I was reading about someone ignoring the fact that all the problems the OEF and OIF veterans have with their claims and treatment from the VA is new. "The VA has betrayed our veterans." Paul Sullivan Veterans For Common Sense said after his group filed a lawsuit because veteran were waiting too long for medical care and compensation. Here is a little history lesson, because if we ignore it, nothing will change.
Frustrated by delays in health care, injured Iraq war veterans accused VA Secretary Jim Nicholson in a lawsuit of breaking the law by denying them disability pay and mental health treatment.
The class-action lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, filed Monday in federal court in San Francisco, seeks broad changes in the agency as it struggles to meet growing demands from veterans returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Suing on behalf of hundreds of thousands of veterans, it charges that the VA has failed warriors on numerous fronts. It contends the VA failed to provide prompt disability benefits, failed to add staff to reduce wait times for medical care and failed to boost services for post-traumatic stress disorder.
The lawsuit also accuses the VA of deliberately cheating some veterans by allegedly working with the Pentagon to misclassify PTSD claims as pre-existing personality disorders to avoid paying benefits. The VA and Pentagon have generally denied such charges.
"When one of our combat veterans walks into a VA hospital, then they must see a doctor that day," said Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, which filed the lawsuit. "When a war veteran needs disability benefits because he or she can't work, then they must get a disability check in a few weeks."
You may think that just happened. You need to think again because if you just started to pay attention to all of this, you're wrong.That report came out July 23, 2007. There was a budget crisis.
Yet, the lawsuit says, Nicholson and other officials still insisted on a budget in 2005 that fell $1 billion short, and they made "a mockery of the rule of law" by awarding senior officials $3.8 million in bonuses despite their role in the budget foul-up.
And while our veterans and families were suffering after decades of promises from members of Congress, they never once apologized for any of it.
"The performance of the United States Department of Veterans Affairs has contributed substantially to our sense of national shame," the opinion from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals read.Nicholson abruptly announced last week he would step down by Oct. 1 to return to the private sector.
He has repeatedly defended the agency during his 2½-year tenure while acknowledging there was room for improvement.More recently, following high-profile suicide incidents in which families of veterans say the VA did not provide adequate care, Nicholson pledged to add mental health services and hire more suicide-prevention coordinators.
Now that may seem as if that was new but it happened to Vietnam veterans in the 80's and 90's. Not that it mattered since Congress did nothing about it. After all, when it reached the point where President Bush had to fight against veterans in court, no one put the blame on Congress.
During an interview given in November for the original CBS story, Dr. Katz told reporter Armen Keteyian that "There is no epidemic in suicide in the VA, but suicide is a major problem." When pressed for an answer to explain the VA's inability to come up with any suicide statistics among veterans, Katz replied "That research is ongoing."
However, "After a public records request, the VA provided CBS News with data that showed there were a total of 790 attempted suicides by VA patients in the entire year of 2007." This number does not match up at all with a private email sent by Dr. Katz to a colleague in which he states that the VA has identified "about 1000 suicide attempts a month in patients we see at are medical facilities," a far cry from his public estimate of 790 a year.
PS, that really hasn't changed either. As you can see, not much has changed.
The VA ties 14 diseases to Agent Orange. It will decide whether to add more by Nov. 1
The News Tribune BY TOM PHILPOTT Military Update AUGUST 03, 2017
VA Secretary David J. Shulkin will decide “on or before” Nov. 1 whether to add to the list of medical conditions the Department of Veteran Affairs presumes are associated to Agent Orange or other herbicides sprayed during the Vietnam War, a department spokesman said Tuesday in response to our inquiry.
Any ailments Shulkin might add to VA’s list of 14 “presumptive diseases” linked to herbicide exposure would make many more thousands of Vietnam War veterans eligible for VA disability compensation and health care.
Ailments under review as possible adds to the presumptive diseases list include bladder cancer, hypothyroidism and Parkinson-like symptoms without diagnosis of that particular disease. But hypertension (high blood pressure) and stroke also might be embraced, or ignored, as part of the current review.
The process was sparked by the Institute of Medicine’s 10th and final review of medical literature on health effects of herbicide exposure in Vietnam. The 1,100-page report concluded in March 2016 that recent scientific research strengthened the association between herbicide exposure and bladder cancer, hypothyroidism and Parkinson-like symptoms. Specifically, the institute, or IOM, found “limited or suggestive” evidence of an association to herbicide versus its previous finding of “inadequate or insufficient” evidence of an association.
The IOM report also reaffirmed from earlier reviews “limited or suggestive evidence” of an association between herbicide sprayed in Vietnam and hypertension and strokes. That same level of evidence was used in 2010 by then-VA Secretary Eric Shinseki to add ischemic heart disease and Parkinson’s disease to the Agent Orange presumptive list. Shinseki had stronger evidence, an IOM finding of “positive association” to herbicide for chronic lymphocytic leukemia, which he also added to the list that year. read more here
AP FACT CHECK: President Trump’s phantom VA reform claims The Associated Press By HOPE YEN July 27, 2017
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump paints a rosy picture of an improved Department of Veterans Affairs under his watch where accessing electronic medical records is “so easy and so good” and health care is freely available without any delays. The problem: It’s not true.
President Donald Trump speaks at the Covelli Centre, Tuesday, July 25, 2017, in Youngstown, Ohio. (AP Photo/Tony Dejak)
At a campaign-style event in Ohio this week, Trump’s claims of progress were so overstated that even his own VA secretary, David Shulkin — who stood right next to him — would have to disagree.
“Since my first day in office, we’ve taken one action after another to make sure that our veterans get the care they so richly deserve,” Trump said.
But the multibillion-dollar IT initiative Trump cites has yet to be even budgeted, and an alternative program of private-sector care he describes is running out of money and needs reauthorization by Congress. Government auditors and whistleblowers say problems of long wait times and shoddy care persist. Some VA improvements happened before Trump took office. read more here
Wait times for medical appointments at veterans facilities in eastern Colorado and the Denver area are among the worst in the nation, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs data show. Front Range veterans have seen little improvement in the three years since a national scandal erupted over the problem.
The average wait for a primary care appointment at just the Denver VA Medical Center has grown to more than 18 days as of July 1 — three times higher than those at the main VA facility in Phoenix, where the problem was first exposed in 2014, and nearly four times the national average.
In June, the VA announced that cuts to home care would be on hold, but Rosenstock said his family was notified Wednesday that his care would be cut by Monday.
"This is the only thing I ever asked for," Rosenstock said.
Rosenstock says he needs help cooking, showering and even walking at times. "Not only have I been receiving it, but I need it. I'm not in a stage of production or getting money or anything else," Rosenstock said. "I mean what I have received, I feel I've earned and what's more, I'm proud to have served."
Veterans Groups Urge House to Reject VA Budget Plan
Associated Press by Hope Yen 23 Jul 2017
Eight major veterans' organizations on Saturday urged Congress to provide emergency money to the Department of Veterans Affairs -- without cutting other VA programs -- as the House moved quickly to address a budget shortfall that threatened medical care for thousands of patients.
An Air Force senior master sergeant greets a Marine Corps veteran at the North Dakota Veteran's Nursing Home in Lisbon, N.D. Under the new VA budget plan, pensions would be reduced for some veterans in nursing homes. (US Air Force photo/David Lipp)
Their joint statement was issued after the House Veterans Affairs Committee unveiled a plan Friday that would shift $2 billion from other VA programs to continue funding the department's Choice program. Put in place after a 2014 wait-time scandal at the Phoenix VA hospital, Choice provides veterans with federally paid medical care outside the VA.
To offset spending, the VA would trim pensions for some veterans and collect fees for housing loans.
The veterans' groups criticized the plan as unacceptable privatization. They urged the House to embrace a bill that "ensures veterans' health care is not interrupted in the short term, nor threatened in the long term."
A House vote is scheduled for Monday. VA Secretary David Shulkin has warned that without congressional action, the Choice program would run out of money by mid-August. read more here
DAV Magazine Unsung Heroes covers the battle to treat all disabled veterans-caregivers equally. Imagine that! You'd think that when the Congress does something for one generation, it would benefit all generations. Then again, you'd also have to think that Congress would have planned on taking care of them in the first place.
Veteran survives crash, stroke, heart attack, but denied benefits WXIA Andy Pierrotti July 22, 2017
In the past, when a veteran was deemed unemployable by the VA, Social Security judges were required to explain why they disagreed with the VA’s disability ruling.
Starting this past march, judges are no longer required to do that.
Sleep is rare commodity for Daniel Norfleat. The Covington resident typically gets about three to four hours asleep a week.
“And without the sleep, I’m constantly going around in circles, a circle of pain,” said Norfleat, a U.S. Navy veteran.
The 53-year-old takes two dozen pills a day for pain, depression and a severe case of insomnia. The rare moments he does get shut-eye, he’s often woken by the screams of a deadly day serving onboard the U.S.S. Lexington, an air craft carrier.
In 1989, a pilot crashed his plane while trying to land. Five sailors died that day and Norfleat hasn’t been able to shake the image from his mind.
“We had fires. We had hurt bodies, hurt people,” said Norfleat. “I have a VA psychologist I see and we talk about it.”
In addition to post traumatic stress disorder, Norfleat has suffered a heart attack, a stroke, and knee surgeries. read more here
Waco Veterans Affairs office denies 92% of Gulf War claims My Statesman Jeremy Schwartz American Statesman Staff July 20, 2017
Waco VA office had the fourth-highest denial rate for Gulf War illness claims. Nationally, the VA denied 87 percent of Gulf War Illness related claims in 2015.
Persian Gulf War photo from the LBJ Library’s “American Soldier” exhibit.
Department of Veterans Affairs benefits officials in Waco have denied a whopping 92 percent of claims related to Gulf War illness, giving Central Texas veterans one of the highest denial rates in the nation, according to data in a recent U.S. Government Accountability Office report. The report found serious and persistent problems with how the VA handles the complicated Gulf War benefits claims, ranging from poorly trained examiners to inconsistent methods of handling claims in different regions of the country. For example, in the continental United States denial rates ranged from 47 percent in Boston to 95 percent in Roanoke, Va., according to an analysis by the advocacy group Veterans for Common Sense.
The VA estimates that 44 percent of the 700,000 service members who served in the 1990-1991 Persian Gulf War have developed such symptoms as joint pain, chronic fatigue syndrome and neurological problems after returning home from war. The illnesses are believed to have been caused by exposure to toxic elements like smoke from burning oil wells, depleted uranium and chemical warfare agents such as mustard gas. read more here
Veterans Administration mistakenly declares war veteran "dead" ABC 6 News by Kurt Ludlow July 11th 2017
COLUMBUS, Ohio (WSYX/WTTE) — A military veteran turned to Six On Your Side for help after getting the surprise of his life. He was surprised to find out he was "dead." At least as far as the government was concerned.
"We are so sorry to learn of the death of Manis McKenzie, and extend to you our deepest sympathy," said Manis as he read from a letter to his wife from the Veterans Administration.
"And they said I had died March 30th and if I'd known that, I wouldn't have scheduled the knee surgery," he said as he laughed.
McKenzie had just returned home from knee surgery. He's got a great sense of humor, which he promptly used on his wife.
"I called my wife and I said, 'I thought you told me that the surgery went well.' She goes, 'well it did.' And I said, 'well I don't think it went so well. I got a letter stating that I died,'" he said.
WASHINGTON — The battle over the future of Medicaid in the Republican effort to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act has given little attention to how reduced funding will affect military veterans.
Veterans groups are now speaking out, saying rolling back financial support for Medicaid, the health insurance program for the low-income and vulnerable, could put at risk the 1.7 million veterans receiving Medicaid benefits.
Contrary to popular belief, they report, less than half of America’s veterans, about 43 percent, get health insurance coverage from the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Those that don’t qualify have either served less than two years or have non-military related injuries, according to the Congressional Research Service. Still, others qualify but rely on private insurance for supplemental coverage or because they live in rural areas far from the nearest VA hospital.
In addition, about 660,000 spouses of veterans get health coverage through Medicaid, according to an estimate by Families USA, a pro-Affordable Care Act group, based on Census figures.
Paralyzed Veterans for America wrote to senators last week urging them not to pass the Republican health care bill that would also put millions of other Americans at risk if Medicaid is scaled back.
One Veteran Fights For Others To Keep Their VA Health Care CBS Boston July 6, 2017
“It doesn’t make any sense to wait for a veteran to reach a state of emergency to start providing care.” Kristopher Goldsmith
ASHBURNHAM (CBS) — One American veteran says he remembers the emotional trauma of seeing the Trade Towers fall on 9/11.
“I was close enough to the towers when they fell on September 11th to see the smoke from my hometown,” said Kristofer Goldsmith.
Now set against the backdrop of a peaceful lake in Ashburnham, Goldsmith told us about one of the most tumultuous times in his life. He was deployed to Iraq at the age of 19 where he photographed atrocities.
“Sometimes it meant that I would be taking pictures of bodies, victims of torture. Iraqi on Iraqi violence,” Goldsmith said.
He had to battle post traumatic stress disorder and even a suicide attempt.
“I took a fist full of Percocet and a bottle of vodka,” he said.
He said he woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed and unable to make it to the flight for his second deployment. He received a general discharge from the army.
“I went from being one of the top soldiers in my battalion to being treated like a criminal,” he said. read more here
As veterans die while waiting for organ transplants, Texans lead fight to fix VA policy Dallas Morning News Camille Caldera July 6, 2017
The Nelsons decided to pay for the surgery with Medicare and assistance from the hospital, which donated some services. Later, the VA apologized and agreed to cover the deductibles from the operation.
Tamara, left, Charles, and Coty Nelson pose for a photograph at their Leander, Texas home Sunday, July 2, 2017.
(Ryan Michalesko/Staff Photographer)
WASHINGTON — When Charles Nelson — a disabled Army veteran from Leander — learned he would need a kidney transplant, his son volunteered. Coty Nelson, 28, was a perfect match. And the Nelsons qualified for a program called Veterans Choice that let them receive care at a local facility instead of traveling out of state to a Veterans Affairs transplant center. But Coty isn't a veteran — so that means they couldn't get coverage under the program. Other veterans seeking transplants from civilians also have been affected, and Rep. John Carter, R-Round Rock, has introduced a bill in Congress to allow coverage for civilian-to-veteran transplants. read more here
In 1993 my husband was tested for Agent Orange. We'll never forget the words the doctor uses after the test was done, "No adverse health effects yet." Yes, those words "yet" have haunted us ever since, knowing that one day, there would be and there was. I thank God everyday that we have not heard the words "cancer" but it hangs over us all the time. If you think for a second we have lost all we had to lose by those who fought the Vietnam War, you are not even close to knowing that price yes yet to be paid in full. Now add in, cholangiocarcinoma.
Vietnam War veterans diagnosed with cancer linked to service being denied care by Veterans Affairs ABC 7 News New York By Kristin Thorne July 05, 2017
"If Jerry, God forbid, doesn't beat this thing, his wife Edie would lose the benefit that her husband earned," Schumer said.
VALLEY STREAM, Long Island (WABC) -- They put their lives on the line for our country - in a conflict that bitterly divided the nation.
Now, some Vietnam veterans are being diagnosed with cancer that may be linked to their service, but they're being denied care by the Veterans Affairs.
Jerry Chiano was only 19-years-old when he went off to fight in the Vietnam War. Years later, he was diagnosed with throat cancer and then more recently, bile duct cancer.
"Most people get no symptoms. They turn yellow. They get a little pain. It's already stage 4," Chiano said.
It's a rare cancer that many believe stems from parasites in Southeast Asia's waterways, but the Department of Veterans Affairs does not recognize it as a service connected illness.
New York Senator Charles Schumer is stepping up to make care available for Vietnam veterans.
"Jerry, who served our country, should not have to fight a second war to gather scientific facts about bile duct cancer," Schumer said.
Schumer called on the National Academy of Sciences to launch a study examining the correlation between bile duct cancer and parasites that veterans may have been exposed to in Vietnam. read more here
Richmond-area veteran with PTSD struggles against VA system to receive benefits Richmond Times-Dispatch BY KATIE O'CONNOR 3 hrs ago
According to the VBA, in 2016, more than 4.3 million veterans were receiving compensation benefits, and more than 887,000 received compensation for PTSD, making it the third most prevalent disability for which veterans receive compensation.
Dylan Crosby warned his girlfriend long ago.
If she wakes up in the middle of the night to find him sleepwalking, he told her, just leave him alone and go sleep in the guest bedroom.
One night, she opened her eyes and he was sitting up in bed, fast asleep, loading his AR-15 rifle.
He still has nightmares about his time in the U.S. Navy. Sometimes he's being chased in the woods, or fighting an unknown, shadowy enemy.
“There was another time when he shook me awake because he thought he had stabbed me in the night,” recalled Megan Prillaman, a Chesterfield County teacher and Crosby’s girlfriend of three years.
Prillaman has seen what haunts Crosby from his days serving his country - what prevents him from sleeping more than an average of five hours a night and what keeps them in their home most weekends because crowds trigger him.
But the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is not convinced.
Crosby has been applying for benefits with the VA for his post-traumatic stress disorder since 2015, and has been denied twice - not because the VA does not think he has PTSD, but because, as the Veterans Benefits Administration - or VBA - claims, it was not clearly caused by his service.
"Then where did it come from?" Crosby asked, flabbergasted, during a recent interview in his Chesterfield County Home.
And according to experts, Crosby is just one of thousands of veterans dealing with very similar issues nationwide. read more here
From this study
Hmm, do you think that this examiner was a Contractor instead of a VA Psychologist? Do you think any of this is new? While this all may be news to you, it isn't to Vietnam Veterans and families. This is just a repeat of the 70's and 80's and 90's! The difference was back then, most of the newer veterans were not even born yet. It took six years for my husband and that was in the 90's. Pretty disgraceful when you think about it!
